BBC iPlayer Faces Ban July 26, 2007

It makes no sense to ban the existing player as long as the BBC puts out other versions in the near future. This is funded by the license fee and so should come in diffwerent versions but there is plenty of other software that comes out for a specific platform first with other versions following on later. Give the BBC a break.

Saying that "there is plenty of other software that comes out for a specific platform first with other versions following on later" does not wash, You don't pay for software as we have done with the license fee and then be told oh but you as an individual can not use it yet because we have not been bothered to write yours.
The BBC should have made a the software for the majority of platforms or even better made it a web based application so that it became platform agnostic.

I use windows

I don't see any sort of problem with the player running on Windows to begin with. It is the most commonly used OS after all. I would say that a Mac OS version should be worked upon but I highly doubt a Linux version will be made.

The reason its windows only is because of the DRM. It's rebadged kontiki (a verisign product), the same product used for 4OD etc. It's basically DRM Windows Media distributed by bittorrent.

Compare that to Joost (VP3/6/Theora? over bittorrent), and you'll see the similarity and difference here.

Now, the next question is, if DRM is the seperating argument, HOW can there be a linux/mac version when Microsoft as of yet offer no support for Windows Media DRM on those platforms (afaik).

This is ridiculous, arse-faced, non-sensical reasoning of the highest order. It's like saying ban BBC2 because some people have crap aerials which wont receive it. Get a decent aerial!

It doesn't face a ban at all, it just means a bunch of geeks have started a petition.

Anyone can start a petition, about almost anything they like. You could get every single person in the country sign it too, and it does not mean anything will happen about it, unless it's passed by government.

Alan beat me to it. I was going to use the word cranky before geek though.

Going back to the Aerial analogy, what you are saying is that Windows XP is the best "Aerial" out there. So Microsoft are devolving there OS with the introduction of Vista ? as this is clearly a terrible "Aerial" we should all use a years old "Aerial" because you think it's brill. Sorry I don't subscribe to your way of thinking.

How the hell can someone justify trying to get a piece of software BANNED because there is not a linux or mac version yet?

Seriously... For goodness sake, get off your stupid OS soapbox and deal with it - Most apps that are planned to be multi-format are developed on Windows first. The other versions are coming. Deal with it and do something more constructive with your time.

Gizmodo, I'm getting pretty sick of your sensationalist headlines which are basically not true. This along with the likes of "Judge baffled by Internet in Internet court case" (which was also not true). I'm not sure I want these misleading taglines on my netvibes homepage any longer.

Sort it out.

Why don't the Linux & Mac users simply be patient? They are the minority, so they think no one else should be allowed to watch on demand BBC until they can, its a bit selfish... I understand that you may be paying the license fee but developing the iPlayer for Linux & Mac users will probably cost more in relation to number of end users than the windows version in the end, so the way I see it you are using more of my license fee by using a minority OS that has to be developed for.

to the people saying mac users should just wait etc, this is stupid, do not comment on what you do not know, i pay a television licence for the bbc's services, i will not be told by the bbc what tv or what computer i can watch them on, and neither should the other 15-20% of the public

I feel strongly that we shouldn't punish XP users simply because others have chosen a different path. While I have every sympathy for non XP users I personally use Vista and am quite happy to wait a few months. This whole argument is futile... how many of the 11,000 singees(?) of the petition have a HD tellie and watch the BBC HD content? Have they complained about that? Yet again, it's all political crap.

By the logic of the proposed ban Freeview should also be banned, as we can't receive Freeview signals in the Channel Islands because it clashes with the French emergency signal band. And before some of you start, we pay the same license fee in the Channel Islands as you, but for a much reduced service. By the way, I don't agree with the ban.

This petition seems born more out of an emotional response than a rational one. I think that MacOS and Linux users are upset that Windows is getting preferential treatment yet again.
If those who run MacOS and Linux wanted to use iPlayer that badly, they have the option to do so - Linux users could run VMware and MacOS users could wait until October, when Boot Camp will no longer be in its beta stage.
That is, unless iPlayer isn't already cross-platform by then.

This is total bullshit. mac and linux users should shut the f**k up and stop moaning. Obviously they are going to make it for the most used OS. If they werent so sad or tight they might have bough something the rest of the world uses and then been able to benefit from this FREE service. If not they can swich their freeview on and watch it the old fashion way!

The problem is this minority has already paid for the software and they have been told:
"The BBC have developed a system that is incompatible with your system but not worry we will make it compatible."
But it will always be incompatible (the DRM system utilized can't run in MacOSX or Linux and if until now Microsoft has not see the business case. How much the BBC would need to pay? ). That means that makeing it compatible means you have to redo the whole system and lost all the money you already has spended or create a parallel system that due that is for a minority is going to be always a second citizen.

Would you not ask to stop a system which is only results are it would be discarted or is going to make you a second class user

Sign up NOW to sign petitions FOR the BBC iplayer. Make them regret whinging!!!

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/dontstopiplayer/
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/iPlayer-NOW/

The real issue when a Windows version is available is 'Will it work properly in Firefox' unlike the current video and sound players that are launched in inappropriate window sizes in Firefox. Hate having to switch to IE

Developing for two other platforms would have cost a reasonable amount more and as a cost benefit equation, it isn't worth it. The tiny fraction of the license fee of MAC and Linux owners that was actually spent on iPlayer for Windows, wouldn't have bought them a C-grade DVD in Woolworths, so they can't say they 'paid for the software' already. There is no precedent for universally accessible roll-outs of any content delivery mechanism for the BBC (digital wasn't available everywhere at first), so I can't see this suddenly becoming the case. People need to stop whining and get some perspective.

Going back to the Aerial analogy, what you are saying is that Windows XP is the best "Aerial" out there. So Microsoft are devolving there OS with the introduction of Vista ? as this is clearly a terrible "Aerial" we should all use a years old "Aerial" because you think it's brill. Sorry I don't subscribe to your way of thinking.

Good. I'm glad. You are clearly an arsehole.
I did NOT say, or imply that windoze is "the best" out there, simply that it has capabilities that others don't (in this case the ability to run iPlayer). And why is Vista "clearly" terrible? Only "clearly" to a bigotted tosser I think.
And it's "their" the possessive pronoun not "there" the adverb in that context you illiterate twat.

Handbags at noon!

Chill guys - lets have a group unbunching of the panties huh?

I agree - banning it just because a minority of subscribers have chosen to use an alternative OS is juvenile. They need to get a grip - better yet, they should go back to complaining about the Olympics logo - I can't believe they let that one die.

Speaking of an illiterate twat Bigoted has one L not two, get your own house straight before you start on someone else's in future.

The BBC seems hell bent on using Microsoft Technology instead of using a platform agnostic approach. This is the problem and there should be an inquiry into why this technology got chosen instead of other more compatible alternatives. Too late now though - the money has been spent - hooray for anyone who wants content thru their XP PC.

But - does this mean we now need a TV licence if we own a PC with Windows XP on it?

In other words why should licence payer be brunting the bill for a service not everyone can or wants to use. I pay my licence to get content thru my TV and my Radio - surely those who want downloads should have to pay for them seperately.

First up - the BBC is not a state broadcaster, it is a public service broadcaster governed by the BBC Trust which is independent of Government. The Government simply sets the licence fee by which the BBC is funded. As such the Government cannot simply 'ban' iPlayer, which has been approved by the trust, without passing an Act of Parliament to make it 'illegal'. Highly unlikely.

On a (very small) secondary note - the point about the Channel Islands paying the same license [sic] fee for a much reduced service isn't entirely true. Despite its tiny population it has its own BBC TV region and ITV region (with transmitters paid for by the licence fee) as well as individual BBC local radio stations for Jersey and Guernsey. Meanwhile all the BBC's digital channels are available via 'Freesat from Sky' or shortly from the BBC's own proposed Freesat service.

The BBC seems hell bent on using Microsoft Technology instead of using a platform agnostic approach. This is the problem and there should be an inquiry into why this technology got chosen instead of other more compatible alternatives. Too late now though - the money has been spent - hooray for anyone who wants content thru their XP PC.

But - does this mean we now need a TV licence if we own a PC with Windows XP on it?

In other words why should licence payer be brunting the bill for a service not everyone can or wants to use. I pay my licence to get content thru my TV and my Radio - surely those who want downloads should have to pay for them seperately.

This is just plain ridiculous. If a new piece of software is coming out, should it be banned unless it supports all operating systems? Maybe users of linux and mac can complain a bit about it, but requesting a ban is OTT. Look at channel 4's on demand system, which has been running for ages with only windows being supported. This petition is just pointless and won't get anyone what they want.

Yes I agree, it is ridiculous.

All you Linux and Mac fanboy's get a grip. "As of May-2007, Microsoft Windows held a near-monopoly of 92.68% of the worldwide desktop market share" - quoted from Wikipedia.

Face it, Windows is the most commonly used OS system in the world, and as well as that, the most easiest to use as a home user. OK I accept it may not be as stable, secure and as small as the open source alternatives out there but Windows is favoured by a huge majority throughout the world; thus, the iPlayer release should go ahead.

It's kind of the same situation with the stupid Windows XP "N" edition - a few pussy's got the hump because Media Player was installed in favour of crappy "Real Player" or whatever - a ridiculous argument seeing as Windows have a perfectly fine and user friendly solution that they can easily bundle with XP.

So... I come to my conclusion. The iPlayer should go ahead for Windows BUT at the same time, BBC should focus hard to bring it out for other OS's.

They are going with with microsoft technology because their own format isn't up to scratch yet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_%28codec%29

This is my take on things...

I may be wrong about this, but isn't the BBC being rushed/ forced into adopting a *closed, Microsoft controlled* DRM system to protect our TV programs?

Microsoft will be willing to pay lots to make its DRM work, as this'll mean more incompatibility & interoperability problems, which in turn makes them money & kills off competitors.

The BBC codecs which playback the TV program are fine (I believe they're cross-platform) & the development time spent on this is all well & good... the Microsoft DRM part of the iPlayer in my opinion isn't good though.

If an open DRM standard could be used by the BBC, then I'm sure everyone would be happy (though not Microsoft) & the same DRM could be rolled-out elsewhere with ease & without argument.

Re. the attempted postponement (not banning) of the iPlayer, people are fed-up with turning a blind eye/ getting the wool pulled over their eyes/ corporate bullying etc, so a line has been drawn.

I think it's about time a line was drawn & I think it's been drawn in the right place in order to get media attention & therefore prompt a carefully made decision from the BBC.

I for want don't want to live in a Microsoft-only world & can very easily live without the iPlayer for a few months yet (ooo nooo... I'll have to continue to use my recorder... the trajedy).

Hopefully, the 6-month reviews by the BBC trust will do some good & we'll get a cross-platform player soon enough.

Valid point George. The only reason we have DRM though is probably due to the huge amount of file sharing and illegal downloads that mainly occur on Windows systems.

Valid point George. The only reason we have DRM though is probably due to the huge amount of file sharing and illegal downloads that mainly occur on Windows systems.

The BBC, a UK publicly-funded body with a remit of public service, has handed over control of its output to Microsoft, a US commercial body. Microsoft now effectively controls access to BBC output which has already been paid for by a UK public which will be unable to make 'fair use' of the material thanks to Microsoft's DRM.

I WAS really eager to try the the iplayer and when i finally got the email saying i can try it i was extremely happy. Unfortunately the happiness soon went 2 user names and 2 passwords later, numerous connection alerts via comodo firewall and numerous alerts from winpatrol and i soon gave up. From what i had gathered it was going to be a tivo type program that auto downloaded the programs you choose, forget that you have to browse for media via IE which then launches iplayer to download the program and then you play it in WMP, so it seems to me all the iplayer really is is a really rubbish download program. As for the programs don't get me started, i assumed as with all of the BBC there would be no adverts and there are indeed no conventional adverts but before top gear played it played a 15 second BBC2 logo intro and while not a advert in the conventional sense it was not apart of the program(top gear) of which i chose to play, so what was it doing there. Then i download BBC Click which air's on BBC News24 and the damn thing even had the news24 news bar (the one with the time and scrolling news) which made it look like bbc(the people who make the program) had recorded and the published it to the iplayer web site which is ridicules do they not have the master copy of something?

I will wait and hope the petition on the downing street site(which i have signed as should you) does more then speeds up the linux/OSX versions but also forces a rethink of the complete program. Until then i will continue to do as i have been doing which is setting up a custom search/filter of BBC programs via torrent sites and subscribing to that feed via RSS then subscribing to that feed via miro/democracy player which auto starts with my pc and auto downloads the new content.

Another thing why didn't they just use the firefox back end as miro and songbird do? doing this would make that part of the program more or less cross platform out of the box.

The word on the street is that iPlayer team has no plans whatsoever on when to start developing for other platforms.
Apparently one of the main developers of the WMV format from Microsoft is heading the iPlayer project so there is fat chance of it happening on other platforms.

the mere fact that the bbc copied apple with the i prefix says it all

apple lead , the bbc and it's cronies in crap - microsuck - copy

you DO know that the bbc are pro ms due to all the money bill gates has given them don't you ?

funny how news20bore doesn't report THAT

You people shouldn't even be asking for iPlayer to run on MacOS or Linux in the first place. The BBC iPlayer is infected with DRM. Supporting DRM is a threat to full control over our computers. We all deserve to have such control.

I blame the BBC, Microsoft and Gordon Brown for even rolling out the iPlayer in the first place. Hope today's protests will change everything. (search for "iplayer protest" using your favourite search engine).

It's entirely up to the BBC to go to the bother of making Linux and Mac versions. Im confused as to why the minority think they 'deserve' it or are entitled to it. It's you Linux and Mac fans that are holding the whole thing back - quit yet bitchin', get off your high horse and just accept it ok?

Fuck off with all the crap u lot are sayin about us linux users! there is nothing wrong with us demanding a version its YOU being selfish thinking just because you are biggest means only you matter, thats the same thing as the US destroying every other country because they are smaller than it etc. Anyway the people who are intelligent with things like linux and mac could easily get it working in something called wine, (google it first result). as that is basicly shitty windows but remade and better. Now fuck off back to ur shitty Windows junk, Vista users also this part is from the heart, i am a beta tester for microsoft and i am telling you this now..either go to google and put in vista sp1 download, then get it and install it or go the hell back to windows XP and then get the vista transform pack from windowsxlive.net as then you get the nice looks but you get better speed too!. Now shush u selfish Windows jerks.
and if anyone wants to reply or retaliate use one of my emails: jad@webplanethosting.net or jadthebad10@hotmail.co.uk